In his administration of Lu, Chi-sun-tzŭ had people put to death on a large scale, as their crimes strictly merited, and frequently inflicted punishments on people, as their faults strictly deserved. Tzŭ-kung said, "A cruel government!"
When he heard of this remark, Chi-sun said, "I put the people to death when their crimes strictly merit it, and I punish them when their faults strictly deserve it. How is it that you, sir, find it cruel?"
Tzŭ-kung said, "How unlike Tzŭ-ch’an's administration of Chêng! In one year the number of faults requiring punishment diminished; in two years crimes requiring capital punishment disappeared. In three years the prisons had no prisoners. As a result the people turned to him as water flows downhill, and loved him as a filial son respects his father and mother. When Tzŭ-ch’an was sick and on the point of death, the citizens all lamented, saying, ‘Is there not someone else who could die in the place of Tzŭ-ch’an?' When he finally did die, the nobles and great officers wept for him in the court, the merchants wept for him in the market, and the farmers wept for him in the fields. For all of them weeping for Tzŭ-ch’an was like mourning for father and mother. Now I heard that when you were sick, our citizens were happy, and when you recovered they all were frightened. When they take your death as reason for congratulation and your living as reason for fear, if this is not the fruit of cruelty, what is it? I have heard that to govern by relying on laws is called cruel; that to insist on a definite period for the completion of a task without having given warning is called tyranny; that to punish people without having instructed them is called oppression; that to impose oneself on others is called exaction. He who makes exactions will lose his life; the oppressor will lose his subjects; the tyrant will lose the government; the cruel ruler will lose the people. Furthermore I have heard that there has never been one who occupied the highest place and practiced these four who did not perish."
Whereupon Chi-sun bowed his head gratefully and said, "I listen with respect to your command." The Ode says,
Blandly he looks and smiles;
Without any impatience he delivers his instruction.
季孙氏之治鲁也，众杀人，而必当其罪；多罚人，而必当其过。子贡曰：“暴哉！治乎！”季孙闻之，曰：“吾杀人，必当其罪；罚人，必当其过。先生以为暴，何也？”子贡曰：“夫奚不若子产之治郑，一年而负罚之过省，二年而刑杀之罪亡，三年而库无拘人。故民归之，如水就下；爱之、如孝子敬父母。子产病，将死，国人皆吁嗟，曰：‘谁可使代子产死者乎？’及其不免死也，士大夫哭之于朝，商贾哭之于市，农夫哭之于野。哭子产者皆如丧父母。今窃闻夫子疾之时，则国人喜，活则国人皆骇。以死相贺，以生相恐，非暴而何哉！赐闻之：托法而治，谓之暴；不戒致期，谓之虐；不教而诛，谓之贼；以身胜人，谓之责。责者失身，贼者失臣，虐者失政，暴者失民。且赐闻：居上位，行此四者而不亡者，未之有也。”于是季孙稽首谢曰：“谨闻命矣。”《诗》曰：“载色载笑，匪怒伊教。”
When he heard of this remark, Chi-sun said, "I put the people to death when their crimes strictly merit it, and I punish them when their faults strictly deserve it. How is it that you, sir, find it cruel?"
Tzŭ-kung said, "How unlike Tzŭ-ch’an's administration of Chêng! In one year the number of faults requiring punishment diminished; in two years crimes requiring capital punishment disappeared. In three years the prisons had no prisoners. As a result the people turned to him as water flows downhill, and loved him as a filial son respects his father and mother. When Tzŭ-ch’an was sick and on the point of death, the citizens all lamented, saying, ‘Is there not someone else who could die in the place of Tzŭ-ch’an?' When he finally did die, the nobles and great officers wept for him in the court, the merchants wept for him in the market, and the farmers wept for him in the fields. For all of them weeping for Tzŭ-ch’an was like mourning for father and mother. Now I heard that when you were sick, our citizens were happy, and when you recovered they all were frightened. When they take your death as reason for congratulation and your living as reason for fear, if this is not the fruit of cruelty, what is it? I have heard that to govern by relying on laws is called cruel; that to insist on a definite period for the completion of a task without having given warning is called tyranny; that to punish people without having instructed them is called oppression; that to impose oneself on others is called exaction. He who makes exactions will lose his life; the oppressor will lose his subjects; the tyrant will lose the government; the cruel ruler will lose the people. Furthermore I have heard that there has never been one who occupied the highest place and practiced these four who did not perish."
Whereupon Chi-sun bowed his head gratefully and said, "I listen with respect to your command." The Ode says,
Blandly he looks and smiles;
Without any impatience he delivers his instruction.
季孙氏之治鲁也，众杀人，而必当其罪；多罚人，而必当其过。子贡曰：“暴哉！治乎！”季孙闻之，曰：“吾杀人，必当其罪；罚人，必当其过。先生以为暴，何也？”子贡曰：“夫奚不若子产之治郑，一年而负罚之过省，二年而刑杀之罪亡，三年而库无拘人。故民归之，如水就下；爱之、如孝子敬父母。子产病，将死，国人皆吁嗟，曰：‘谁可使代子产死者乎？’及其不免死也，士大夫哭之于朝，商贾哭之于市，农夫哭之于野。哭子产者皆如丧父母。今窃闻夫子疾之时，则国人喜，活则国人皆骇。以死相贺，以生相恐，非暴而何哉！赐闻之：托法而治，谓之暴；不戒致期，谓之虐；不教而诛，谓之贼；以身胜人，谓之责。责者失身，贼者失臣，虐者失政，暴者失民。且赐闻：居上位，行此四者而不亡者，未之有也。”于是季孙稽首谢曰：“谨闻命矣。”《诗》曰：“载色载笑，匪怒伊教。”
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